Board index Hand Tools. Are there any major differences in quality or features? Does either indicate a particular age? Any tips appreciated. I saw a trim carpenter using one. The guy said he could not live without it, so I figured I couldn't either.
Quoting the angle would help, also if the blade is bevel up or down. The is a standard angle, like most of the other block planes, but the bevel up cutting edge is at a skewed angle compared to the sides of the plane, rather than at 90 degrees. Appears to be a current day no.
Phrase dating english stanley planes agree with you
This is a plane you can buy at most big box hardware stores. You are commenting using your WordPress. You are commenting using your Google account. You are commenting using your Twitter account.
You are commenting using your Facebook account. Notify me of new comments via email. Notify me of new posts via email. Posts Comments. Early Stanley no. Stanley No. Like this: Like Loading January 31, at am. Bryant Rice says:.
January 31, at pm. Robert Karl says:. January 22, at pm. Where can I buy the wooden front knob for a Stanley block plane. Bryant says:. August 23, at pm. Robert Nicholson says:. May 7, at am. May 7, at pm. Sean Murphy says:. August 3, at pm. Stanley, in their instructions for using the planes, specifically addresses just how tight the lever caps should be - "If the Cam [of the lever cap] will not snap in place easily, slightly loosen the Lever Cap Screw. Some modern day tool authors, sure in their scholarly advice, recommend taking a pair of pliers and squeezing the 'tines' of the adjusting fork toward each other to take out some of the slop in the mechanism.
You'll snap the thing as sure as that plaid shirt and toolbelt wearing guy will use a bisquick joinah. If the fork is broken, you can pilfer one from a dogmeat bench plane by knocking out the pin that allows the fork to pivot.
The pin normally pops out when driven from left to right as viewed from the rear of the frog. There were many modifications made to the bench planes over their production.
These are outlined in the type study, but the major design change, that of the frog and the way it seats on the bottom casting, is mentioned here in greater detail.
There are four major frog and corresponding receiver of the main casting designs found on the Bailey bench planes. Sure, there were some experiments gone awry and a few minor modifications, but the descriptions of the four that follow are those that were in the longest production. The first design resembles the letter "H" when viewed from the front or rear of the plane. The frog is machined to sit on the sides, or rails, of this machined area of the main casting.
The frog is screwed to the cross 'beam' that spans the rails. This design was the one Leonard Bailey finally settled upon prior to Stanley purchasing his patents.
Dating english stanley planes
Stanley continued this solid design for just a few years until ca. The second major design dispensed with the experimental frog ca. This design is simply a broad and flat rectangular area that is machined on the bottom casting. This machined area is rather low, and has two holes that receive the screws which are used to secure the frog in place.
Likewise, the bottom of the frog is machined flat to fit onto the bottom casting. This method of securing the frog was sound and it worked well, but the amount of machining, after the parts were cast, certainly made production more costly and slow, and they eventually cast two grooves into the main casting's frog receiver ca.
Still, this construction was too costly. Thus, Stanley needed to modify the design if they were to become "The Toolbox of the World. The third design made its debut inand was again patented by Stanley. This re-design of the frog likely was an attempt of Stanley's to keep the competition at bay, since their original design's patents had expired just 5 years earlier. Under the new design, the frog receiver on the bottom casting is made up of a cross rib, a center rib, and two large screw bosses that flank each side of the center rib.
The leading edge of the frog itself has a support directly behind the mouth to offer a solid base as a measure to reduce chattering. The rear of the frog rests on the cross rib, across its full width. The frog has a groove that is centered across its width and is perpendicular to its front edge. This groove sits atop the center rib and is used to align the frog, keeping it square with the mouth.
The center rib was slighty modified to a larger and arched shape starting around The two screw bosses, used to receive the screws that fasten the frog to the bottom casting, are purposely large and deep.
They were made this way to prevent the sole from deflecting upward when the frog is screwed securely into place. The entire frog is adjustable forward or backward to close or open the mouth, as the case may be by a set screw that is accessible directly below the frog's brass cutter depth adjustment nut. This frog adjusting screw was first offered on the Bed Rock series of planes, but soon found favor with frog adjusters everywhere and was added to the Bailey series starting around The fourth design, made right after WWII, has the frog receiver with the center rib now cast to resemble a wishbone.
There is a 'break' in the machined area of the cross rib, right above the frog adjusting screw. This new design wasn't patented. This means that the plane didn't meet the quality specifications during its inspection.
Usually, the imperfection is something trivial, like a flaw in the finish or a casting defect a pockmark or two. I've only noticed this marking on the planes made during the midth century. The earlier planes that had quality problems were likely trashed and never made it out to the adoring public.
Go see the 17 for some other 'imperfect' information. During the late 's and very early 's, Stanley decided to paint some of the frogs on their sides only a bright, Cheeto's-colored orange - you almost go blind looking at it. This orange paint covers the normal japanning that was used on the frog and main casting. Why Stanley did this is anybody's guess. Perhaps they were trying to go one-up on the Millers Falls' line of bench planes, where that company painted their frogs a bright red. If this is the case, it's rather laughable as Millers Falls was never going to dethrone Stanley as the world's leader in metallic bench planes.
Type 3 Type 13 "Stanley" appears on lever cap. Type 4 Type 14 "Made in USA" appears cast into Type 5 Lateral adjustment lever appears. fatgirlnmotion.com Size: 63KB. Actually, the planes have a major design problem - they choke very easily with the mouth as Stanley provided, and in order for them to work well, the mouth had to be filed open somewhat; the face of the iron, along its edges, butts right against the steel (see the #90 version of this plane for an image of the other side of the plane, where. New trademark stamped on irons of planes. A series of logo changes are found on these planes. All 3 of the logos are the result of the merger between Stanley Rule and Level, the tool producer, and The Stanley Works, the hardware producer. A notched rectangle, in which the word "STANLEY" is stamped, sits over a heart-shaped design, in which the letters "S.W." are stamped.
However, Millers Falls did debut their bench plane line inwhich is the same time Stanley offered their orange frogs. This orange paint craze wasn't just limited to the Bailey line of planes.
It can also be found on the Bed Rock series of bench planes, some of the block planes the brass knob and adjuster are painted orangeand on the 78 rabbet the embossed logo on the right side is highlighted in orange. There are probably other planes that got the treatment as well. The bench planes are the most commonly found orange decorated planes, with the others being somewhat scarce.
Stanley produced a very short-lived frog design during the early 's pictured in the image to the left. Stanley, realizing the genius of Leonard Bailey, may have thought that his new design would prove to be a threat to the conventional design and then decided to mimic his.
Bailey's Victor design certainly proved easier to manufacture as there was less machining involved, but it does have two real flaws: there is no ability to adjust the frog to open or close the mouth; and the cross-rib that carries the frog is susceptible to cracking or breaking due to the stress placed on it from overtightening the lever cap or during planing. This frog is secured to the cross-rib via two screws that are oriented horizontally. Nice attempt Leonard and Stanley, especially since one size frog could be used on multiple sizes of the bench planes 3 through 8but the one frog fits all definitely didn't satisfy all users of the planes.
Many folks find it confusing about whether Stanley or Bailey made these planes. The answer is, both made them.
Leonard Bailey, while working in happening Boston, Massachusetts during the 's and 's, came upon the fundamental design of planes with which we are all familiar. Stanley, having been a manufacturer of rules, levels, squares, etc for some 15 years, was looking to expand their toolmaking business, so they bought out Bailey's patents in They produced the planes with little change, where the only Stanley markings were on the iron and on the lateral adjustment lever.
Many people believe that the lever caps are replaced on these models or that they aren't Stanley products since they have "BAILEY" on them. They most assuredly are Stanley products. The Bailey-made stuff, from Boston, is very scarce and highly prized by collectors. The corrugated version of the 3. Like the 2Cthe advantages that corrugations supposedly offer the plane during use are somewhat questionable on a plane of this size.
The standard smoothing plane. This, along with the 5are what made Stanley a fortune. This plane will out-smooth any sanding, scraping, or whatever on most woods. There are woods that present themselves as problems for this plane, and the rest of the Stanley bench planes for that matter, but this shouldn't deter you from owning one.
The planes were designed to be general purpose and affordable, not to conquer any wood tossed their way. Many modern woodworkers have their first plane epiphany with this little tool as the curls come spilling out its mouth.
Occasionally, you might find an early version of this plane with a built-in oiler located at its knob which holds oil that is drained through perforations drilled through the sole, directly beneath the knob.
This was an aftermarket addition, and unlike other aftermarket ideas, like the tilting handles on modified 10 's, which Stanley eventually put into production, the oiling device soon became a genetic deadend in the tool tree. The same oiling device can also be found on 5' s. The corrugated version of the 4. One of Stanley's dumber ideas, as can be inferred from their short time of offering, was the aluminum planes.
The bed and frog on this plane are made from aluminum, which makes the plane lighter. This was the supposed appeal of these planes, that they are lighter than the iron planes. That, and that they weren't prone to rusting. Rosewood was used for the knob and tote.
Despite all these swell features, the planes were a miserable flop. These planes were produced at a time when nickel plating appeared on the lever caps. All the ones I've seen have the old-style lever cap, without the new kidney-shaped hole that was first produced in If you see one of these planes with a lever cap that is nickel plated and has a kidney-shaped hole, it's probably a replacement. The depth adjusting knob is also nickel plated, as well as the lateral adjustment lever.
They'd be useful tools if you were planing over your head all day, but not many of us do that. Since aluminum oxidizes easily, these planes leave despicable skidmarks for lack of a better word on the freshly planed wood.
The planes - those that were used, that is - also tend to develop a very ratty look to them.
Opinion dating english stanley planes remarkable
The surface of the aluminum becomes riddled with dings and scratches making them blech to even the casual Stanley collector well, maybe not all of them, but many of them for certain - most of them take on a striking resemblance to the lunar landscape after being used. Those that are in mint condition have some appeal about them, but they still have look like of an aluminum pot or piece of foil.
If you're collecting this stuff, make sure it's aluminum and not some iron plane in aluminum paint clothing - if the weight of the thing doesn't clue you in, a magnet will. The aluminum planes were appreciably more expensive than the cast iron models. You have to wonder if any heads rolled for this braindead idea? Lucky for us that Stanley didn't make a mitre box, or something like that, out of aluminum.
Hey, wait a minute, they did! Let's just say that the company was going through a phase and be done with it. Offered as indestructable planes maybe Stanley foresaw the nuclear arms race? They advertised them as being useful for shops that had concrete floors. If I were in Stanley's marketing department, back when the planes were offered, I would have added that the planes were also designed for those workdudes prone to losing their temper, where the planes can withstand their being slammed to the ground during a fit of rage, like after you smash your thumb with a hammer or something like that.
These planes beg abuse, and have a pressed or forged steel bottom. The steel is bent to form a U-shape. A piece forward of the mouth and rear of the mouth are riveted to the steel bottom.
Agree dating english stanley planes confirm. happens. healthy!
The lever cap and frog are made of malleable iron the normal bench planes have their bottom casting made of gray ironwith the frog's casting having a noticeably coarser texture than those provided on the Bailey line.
The frog design is unique to this plane, and is not interchangable with other bench planes. The upper portion of the frog has concave sides, and resembles a glass long-neck beer bottle.
The frog is adjustable with the same patent arrangement that was provided on the Bailey bench planes. I have seen some examples that have a spacer piece placed behind the fork that engages the frog adjusting screw. They resemble the look of the BED ROCK series of planes, with their semi-squared off sides actually, they are slightly concaveinstead of the rounded sides found on the Bailey line. Their knob and tote are rosewood - a species that's certainly capable of withstanding the plane smashing on concrete?
Speaking of the knob and tote, the totes used on these planes have a large hole bored in their bottoms so that they can engage the boss in which the tote screw fits. Thus, a normal 4 tote cannot fit on this plane without first enlarging the hole. The knobs are always the high knob variety, but the earlier models did not have the raised ring into which the knob fits.
After the idea of a raised ring was hatched, this plane had that feature applied to it to help it be even more indestructible than before. The planes are finished nicely, and look rather striking when in mint condition finding them anywhere near mint condition is difficult since most of the examples got transformed into dogs from all the rough use.
The lever caps are nickel plated and look similarly to those used on the Bailey series. However, the lever caps are supposedly made of malleable iron and have a different pattern of recesses on their backsides than the normal lever caps.
The frog and inside area of the bottom section are finished with a flat black japanning, which gives them the appearance of having been repainted. The plane is stamped "No. S4" into the top of the main portion can't say main casting here since these planes aren't castright at the toe, before the knob.
This plane is scarcer than the regular 4but it is by no means rare. Seems there must have been a lot of cement floors that were eating the Baileys, I'll bet.
This is a wider and heavier smoothing plane that some find preferable. Stanley, and other companies, would try to slip new models of planes into a numbering sequence of planes already in production, and would use the fractional designation so that they could be grouped with similar models in the sequence.
The very first model of the plane has no number embossed at the toe, which, according to those who have tried to make a chronological typing of the Bailey bench planes, made its debut on planes in For this plane, one should check the toe for any signs of re-grinding and painting to make sure it's legitimate. The planes can also be found with the number embossed at the toe, and in a pre-lateral no lateral adjustment lever configuration.
Be sure the japanning is original and matches well between the frog and the main casting. Some folks like the extra weight of these planes since the extra mass assists planing. I have this half-baked, semi-baked, even fully-baked theory that Stanley offered this plane as competition for the heavier infill planes, being produced in England.
Problem is, this one isn't even a 'contendah' with those products from the eastern shores of the Atlantic. Certainly their extra mass is a step in the right direction, but other than that, these planes are left taxiing on the tarmac, while the infills are soaring to new heights. Think it sounds whacked? Prior to this date, Bailey had been producing the same series of bench planes, in various configurations, for roughly 8 years. Over in Scotland, Mr. Stewart Spiers was laboring in relative anonymity communication between the bonnie shores of Scotland and USofA was simply a boatride away back when Stewart first starte making bench planes designed using the same techniques as the traditional dovetailed mitre planes, which had been around for quite some time.
Part of the appeal of these bench planes to the cabinetmakers was their mass, much heavier than other planes, which assisted the worker when faced with difficult grain.
Spiers was the uncontested infill planemaker for decades due to the traditional psyche that fills the typical English dude's head. But the gaining popularity of Spiers' product line eventually was noticed by the toolmakers south of Ayr, down in merry ol' England.
The most famous of them, Thomas Norris, started direct competition with Spiers sometime in the second half of the 19th century - it's actually debatable when he first took to making planes since his earliest descriptions of his trade were as a tool dealer, not as a planemaker.
Norris finally adopted the title 'planemaker' in Eventually, many other English and Scottish planemakers jumped on the infill bandwagon. Names like Mathieson, Preston, Slater, and a host of others all raced for a slice of the infill pie by the 's.
All of the makers were producing infill planes that were nearly identical to their competition's - heavy, solid, and massive when compared to wooden and 'inferior' American products. This rush by many manufacturers to fill the demand for fine planes had to have been noticed either by Stanley or by their mole operatives over in England. By the 's, Stanley had positioned themselves as the largest toolmaker in America, and one of the world's largest.
They were on a mission of world domination, and set the wheels in motion to do just that. To achieve that end, they had to be saavy to what was hot and what was not. If they couldn't buy up their competition, they'd just offer a similar tool at a more affordable price.
Dating Stanley 78 planes. Sanford Levy >Hi, I have bought a few Stanley bench planes, often on , and seem to be able to figure out pretty well how to date them using the flow chart everyone uses for Stanley's. But what about Stanley 78's? I know they still (still?) make them and do not want to end up with a recent one. Block Plane Dating. A great deal of research has been dedicated to dating Stanley's bench planes over the years, with type studies established for the Bailey and Bedrock lines, as well as many of the most popular specialty planes. While comprehensive type studies exist for the no. , no. /2, and nos. 18/19 series of block planes, there doesn't appear to be much information on the nos. 60 or 65 series . Stanley Plane Identification: How to Identify Antique Stanley Bailey Hand Plane Age and Type? Stanley Type 1 Handplanes: Stanley Type 2 Handplanes: Stanley Type 3 Handplanes: Stanley Type 4 Handplanes: Stanley Type 5 Handplanes: Stanley Type 6.
Give the customers what they want, or at least what Stanley would tell them they wanted, and at an affordable price, was Stanley's m.
During this time Stanley was in its initial stages of expanding its product line with whatever they thought could sell. And guess what?
There seems to be a stanley that planes made before, plane, the mid-sixties are generally dating. For Record planes I look for irons with flat parts tapered sides at the topand Stanley planes for the period also had the same dating top british. I can prove it. Dating british stanley planes. Sep 18, á I've recently bought quite a few used Stanley planes and I'm wondering how old they are. A couple of them are US made and there's a lot of information about dating those, but I can't find anything about the English ones. Are there any resources regarding the English Stanleys, or does anyone here have information. If I recall correctly, Stanley didn't start UK production until With WW2 marking the start of the decline in quality, I guess the majority of UK made planes will be lower quality. Whereas, as the majority of USA made Stanleys were pre-WW2, the majority would be higher quality.
That same era was when all them English dudes were making them heavy infills - the time when their popularity finally escaped the lochs of Scotland for the toolmaking powerhouses of England. All the aformentioned tools were a radical departure from Stanley's main product line of bench and block planes.
Stanley just reconfigured the common 4feeding it tool vigoro, making it more massive. Stanley truly felt that their planes were the best in the world, and they were hell-bent to force that belief in every corner of the globe. They eventually did, as any tool historian knows, even knocking off the former English tool giants.
My opinion is that Stanley was jumping on the infill bandwagon simply by increasing the mass of the tool, but neglecting the other finer points of these planes. Stanley could not, or would not, make such a significant design change to their bench planes since they had too much at stake to lose - mass production at an affordable cost, both of which are contrary to the infill planes' practically custom production.
Pawn Shop Hand Plane RECLAIMED! Part 1-Stanley-Bailey #4.
These planes were 'unknown' for the longest time in this country. It seems that they were specifically targeted toward the English market, where the heavier infilled planes were still favored by many. The main casting is very much like those castings produced during WWII, with their noticeably thicker dimensions. The plane does have the letter "H" cast after the number. You might notice that I don't include the weight of this plane here.
Because I've never seen any Stanley literature or propaganda about them. Perhaps someone in the viewing audience can toss one on the bathroom scale and get back to me in avoirdupois weights, not metric, please. If the scale hasn't been doctored by a household dieter, and it is to be believed as accurate, this plane weighs in at 5lb. The standard jack plane that Stanley sold by the boatload. This is the most useful of all the bench planes, and it is a very good plane on which to learn technique.
It is the first plane used on rough stock to prepare the surface prior to use of the jointer and smoother. Practically every John Q. Handyman had one of these planes, of one make or another, for household uses such as trimming a door or sash.
Its iron is often ground slighty convex so that a heavy cut can be taken; the edges of it are rounded off so that it doesn't dig into the wood. Each and every woodworker, including the 'lectrical toolers of the world, should have this plane. The plane can serve several roles when one doesn't have all the other planes in his kit.
It can do the surface preparation with its mouth set wide and a deep set to the iron, it can do smoothing with its mouth set narrow and a shallow set to the iron, and it can do jointing, although not as easily as the true jointers, the 7 and 8.
The corrugated version of the 5. See A4 for unbiased opinion. This is just that plane's bigger brother. Go to S4and read that. This one is just its bigger brother. This is a smaller jack plane designed for manual training in school.
It is often called the "junior jack plane".
Recommend you dating english stanley planes was
Nevertheless, it's still a very useful plane for us adults and those who pretend to be. The planes eventually found favor by others, and it became rather popular, as indicated by its offering into the 's. The models made during the 's are more difficult to find than the later examples. These planes are often found in a condition that looks as if they were on the wrong end of a bar room brawl. Such mistreatment shouldn't happen to a dog.
A tough plane to find, if you're smitten by the collecting bug. It's the scarcest plane of the entire Bailey series those offered in the USofAbut it doesn't hold the honor of being the most valuable - that honor belongs to the 1. I've seen faked examples of this plane so let's be careful out there! As proof that catalog listings of when the plane was offered can be erroneous, and that they must be taken with a grain of salt, I uncovered an example of this plane that dates some 20 years prior to its supposed manufacture.
The plane is unmistakably from the turn of the century as it doesn't have the frog adjusting screw that was applied to the Bailey series ca. Furthermore, it also has the old style frog that was dropped ca.
This plane was found in the New Britain, CT area, home to Stanley, and it's probable that the plane was made in a small batch to test-market its acceptance prior to adding it to the catalog for the masses to enjoy.
A wider and heavier jack plane for rougher work. These make good planes for preparing broad areas such a truing panels. Be careful when searching for replacement irons for these planes. Take note of the change in the iron's width.
The older planes have to have an old iron made prior to the change in width; you'll have to use an original, if you need a replacement, as this width of iron is unique to this plane. This one is just its bigger and heavier brother. I've never found this size plane useful. You Satan worshipers out there might find them a useful prop during your goat slicing schtick by placing three of them alongside each other. Just be sure that they all point toward New Britain so that the number "" results.
The plane is definitely not as numerous as the 3 's, 4 's, 57 's, and 8 's. Some guys prefer them for jointing, but the whole function of jointing is to run a longer flat surface over the edge you're planing, which the longer planes do.
Still, it's a plane a smaller person may prefer, since the larger ones are heavier. The burden of pushing a heavier plane can be minimized, however, by doing most of the surface preparation with the jack, and saving your energy for the large jointers. Some oldtimers would stock their tool carriers with a 6 to use as a jointer to help reduce the weight they had to lug around from job to job. Stanley advertised the plane as "simply a short jointer. The corrugated version of the 6. See A5 for reference for unbiased opinion.
Note that this one was offered for 3 years longer than the other two - proof that the 6 size isn't that popular? Hmmmm, I wonder Anyway, I'll bet the champagne corks popped simultaneouly with a deafening sound worse than that of any Lawrence Welk episode, for sure after the last A6 left New Britain, bound for some sucker in Anytown, Borneo. The standard jointer. This, along with a 4 and a 5is part of most woodworkers' handtool arsenals. The jointer is used to true an edge make it straight or face make it flat.
This task is usually now done by finger-eatin' machinery, however, there are many de-evolutionists who delight in using these cast iron marvels.